cabinpres_fic: (pic#1165825)cabinpres_fic ([personal profile] cabinpres_fic) wrote,
@ 2011-04-09 07:00 pm UTC
  • Previous Entry
  • Add to Memories
  • Tell someone about this!
  • Next Entry
Current mood: creative
Entry tags:chatter post


Please see the most recent MOD NOTE and ADDENDUM


(updated 5 July)


Good evening ladies and gentlemen (and good day to you too, inhabitants of the other side of the world). As always - this isn't a captain speaking but I come bearing news nonetheless.

It has been brought to my attention today(/night) by our good friend OxfortTweed, that a Chatter Post might work quite well for our fandom.

I'm inclined to agree with him.


As such, here you have a brand-spanking-new post to chatter, Brit-pick, ask questions, debate, gossip, gush and generally indulge in any fannish activity that does not fall under the category of posting or filling prompts. I hope you all enjoy it

The usual guidelines apply, but mostly:

-  Please be respectful to one another.

-  Don't bash other (non)anon's comments/questions/ideas/etc.

-  Have fun

Now go forth, chat amongst yourselves and enjoy. I am of course on stand, so if any problems arise, feel free to drop me a line.

And if you stumble across any plot bunnies here, please just drop them off home at the Prompt-Post, the rest of the herd will be overjoyed to meet them.


Or as they say in Limerick

It's been brought to my attention we are needing
A place for discussion, not reading
I hope this post will do
I'll leave the rest to you
And Beware of the plot bunnies breeding

Sorry if the poem is rubbish - I literally haven't written one since grade five.


REALLY IMPORTANT ADDENDUM



According to numerous Child Safety laws it is illegal to provide pornographic material to minors. Seeing that the majority of the stuff we have here is rather adult in nature, this Meme is consequently an 18+ zone. Failing to comply to this rule could result in the Meme getting shut down. So if you're here and you're under 18 please back button now.

Please do not post anything regarding minors in a sexual situation. It really doesn't matter how tasteful or crass it is, there are laws that classify that sort of thing as child pornography and as such, I'm afraid we're going to have to go with the attitude that safe is better than sorry.

It really is VERY important that these rules are upheld as the consequences are severe.

Other than that - go crazy guys. Any problems please just message me and I'll try my best to work it out.



Part I | Part II | Part III | Part IV | Part V | Part VI | Prompt Index

Current Prompt Post | Current Chatter Post | WIP Post | Filled Prompts Post | Searching Post | Orphan Post | Page-a-Mod Post | FAQ | Beta/Concrit Post

[livejournal.com profile] cabin_pressure | Cabin Pressure @ AO3 | IRC Chat @ irc.ecnet.org #FittonATC

(Read 6312 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only)

Student Housing Info-dump Pt1


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 10:38 am UTC (link)
As I had a yes, I shall post. I hope someone finds it useful. :)

As it seems to be something that I keep seeing mentioned now it's canon, I bring you:

A not so brief introduction to shared student houses.

First off, shared houses of the kind Martin is living in are nothing at all like a US college dorm. Get that image our of your head and start afresh cause... well, yeah, it's really not that similar.

Just going from my own experiences, I'm going to guess that what Martin most likely lives in is one house in a terraced row on a random suburban street not too far from the college, probably surrounded by lots of other terraced houses. It's likely not the only shared student house down that road either, but in between will be regular families and privately owned homes. The most frequently studentified houses around here are standard red-brick terraces, narrow-fronted but quite deep, usually with a long-ish narrow garden behind.

They're often older buildings (Victorian & Edwardian especially) because landlords like them. They're solidly built, the rooms are usually all a decent size compared to new-build, and most importantly they are very rarely open-plan. This is important if you want to cram in as many students as possible. They're also frequently in areas that are a little bit cheap and run-down. Mostly because if you have a lot of students clustered in one area it tends to pull the property prices down, and students almost always cluster within a few of miles of the Uni.

How it usually works, to fit 5 students and a pilot into one home: There will be a shared kitchen, and a shared upstairs bathroom. There may be a shared toilet on the ground floor as well. All the other rooms will have been converted into bedrooms. So there'll be a bedroom in what used to be the living room and/or dining room, any bedrooms upstairs will be used, and in this case we know the attic has been converted as well.

I see a lot of fic where Martin has to climb a ladder to get into his attic. Now unless his landlord is an UTTER shit, this is AMAZINGLY ILLEGAL. If it doesn't have stairs and a fire-door at the bottom you can forget it, the landlord can't rent that as anything but storage or, at a push, maybe some kind of unofficial office or study. But you are certainly not allowed to live in it. Of course Martin may be desperate for a cheap place to live but he's a stickler for regulations too and let's be honest, there's no way he'd put up with a landlord breaking Health & Safety rules all over the place when in the realm of student housing there's always a different house and a different landlord to try somewhere else.

There are very strict regulations about attic conversion in rental houses, and renting out a space as a bedroom that did not conform to building regulations can land your landlord in a big pile of trouble. Depending on when it was converted, the stairs up may be quite narrow and steep and tucked in a corner that used to be part of another room, but they will be proper stairs.

(Reply to this)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt2


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 10:41 am UTC (link)
The reason Martin may have taken the attic as the cheapest room in the house probably has nothing to do with its grottiness, it's likely cheaper because it's going to be small. You lose a lot of space under the eaves simply because there's no standing room. It'll vary depending on the layout of the house of course but if we go back to the era of housing I'm most familiar with, the attic is likely to be kind of narrow. Because on a terrace property the roofline runs horizontally across the width of the house, rather than front-to-back, the only standing room will be in the centre and it will only run the width of the house. Most Victorian era terraces are only 1 room wide as they're long and deep rather than broad so Martin's usable space is going to be pretty tiny.

You can extend terraced houses out into the back garden to enlarge the living spaces below, but you can't extend the roof-space as easily without essentially taking apart chunks of your neighbours' roofs as well. That's expensive and most people don't bother. Likely Martin can get a single bed and some drawers and maybe some shelves in there and that's about it. Maybe a small wardrobe, depending on the layout. Sometimes the edges where the roof meets the floor can get boxed off as cupboard space.

He may also choose to have a mattress direct on the floor and forget the bed-frame, just because it's more efficient to tuck the mattress further under the eaves and free up as much room as possible. The stairs will take up a chunk of whatever floor-space is left and it's doubtful he'll be swinging any cats up there. Luckily he's short or he'd be forever smacking his head on stuff. (I've been in my nephew's attic bedroom. I'm pretty short and even I have to duck in some places.)

Paying the rent can go numerous ways as well. Depending on whether you rent through a lettings agency or direct to a private landlord, you either pay the agency who pay the landlord on your behalf, or you might pay the landlord yourself. It's also the agency or landlord's responsibility to fix anything that breaks and organise all the annual safety checks (of which there are legion. Seriously. You can expect the gas appliances and electrics to be checked yearly for insurance reasons alone.)

Some universities and colleges run their own lettings agencies for students with a list of approved landlords, and they match up single students to half-full houses looking for an extra person. It's not unusual though for a group of students who already know each other to organise themselves independently and share a complete house between them. Depending on whether the Uni has its own Halls of Residence or not, it's quite common to live in Halls for maybe the first year, then move out into a rented shared house with your friends in the second. Of course if the Uni doesn't have Halls of its own then house-sharing from the outset is kind of the default and you're more likely to get a group of strangers together.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 10:46 am UTC (link)
How Martin got in if he wasn't a student- well you can check off the Uni lettings agency, they wouldn't talk to him. General lettings agencies are a possibility, and in a Uni town there'll be a few who have a department just for single room lets and shared houses. Also to be honest it's not that unexpected to see a hand-written sign in a house window saying there are student rooms to let, with just a price per room and a phone number. That usually means its a private landlord, circumventing paying a percentage to an agency.

They're both legitimate (though you can find a few sharks via the latter,) and you might get a slightly cheaper rent by going direct rather than through an agent. But then some private landlords don't want to talk unless you've already arranged a group to fill the house completely, because they want to get all the rooms occupied and it's harder finding an odd extra person to fill the last room.

Martin's rent may or may not include utilities, but the room probably came basically furnished and the kitchen would have had appliances. Students are often expected to supply their own utensils and household stuff though. Supermarkets make an absolute killing with bottom-end, basic, cheap homewares all the way through September and October.

The other thing I will say, having lived around student houses for a good chunk of time, you know summer has come and the academic year has ended because the road fills up with skips and the landlords start redecorating and chucking out all the crap the students broke. It's not uncommon to at least partially strip and re-paint a house over the summer break.

Martin said he's been there 9 years and 3 generations of students. Assuming that each group stays for 3 years before graduating and moving on, every 3rd summer it's quite likely the landlord will genuinely NEED to completely redecorate before letting out to a new set of tenants. My folks always called it Mucking Out. (Yep, just like shovelling out a stable.)

Students are very good at making houses kind of grim inside. Not maliciously, but just carelessly and often a bit drunkenly, especially groups of boys. (Sorry guys.) Again you can tell the Uni's broken up because the street will be covered in bags of recycling put out for collection, usually full of stacked-up beer cans and pizza boxes.

That said it's also not unheard of for a landlord to grant a tenant a certain amount of money for materials and/or an equivalent discount in their rent to do the decorating themselves. As Martin lives there full time and doesn't move out over summer like the rest, if he's good at budgeting and can get his materials cheaply then it's not impossible to make a little profit (or breathing-room on the rent) by decorating on the landlord's behalf.

If he does a good job it would also keep him in his landlord's favour. Which really means if the rent is late at times in the future they're far more likely to tolerate it just because he's a nice person and a useful tenant the rest of the time.

I think that about covers most of it. Any other questions/comments/totally contradictory experiences, feel free to add them. Not every rental experience is the same and we haven't rented out for over a decade so I'm a little foggy on where the exact legalities lie now. But some landlords are bastards, some student houses are festering crap-holes and some students are malicious vandalising gits. On the other hand, most of them are really quite lovely, if perhaps a bit crap at cleaning. It can very much go either way.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 11:42 am UTC (link)
So many potential plot bunnies in all of this! @_@

Thank you very much!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 05:29 pm UTC (link)
Hooray! Plot ideas are never a bad thing.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 02:29 pm UTC (link)
That's actually basically the same as shared student housing in the US. (They were common around my university, distinct from fraternities, dorms, campus apartments, and rental houses.)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 05:28 pm UTC (link)
I assumed the basic idea would have some similarities with other countries, it's usually just random stuff and details that make the difference. Still, figured it might be useful for some.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-01 05:56 pm UTC (link)
Actually British and (a couple of degrees later) still a student, but was happy to see that this all pretty much confirms my student experience in a couple of different towns. Other than that you sometimes do get a living room - just depends on how tight the landlord wants to pack you in, and whether the front room can be easily converted or not.

Victorian houses often have their original wooden sash windows - which are beautiful, but not the most well insulated of things, not being double glazed. Mould tends to grow underneath them, despite the best efforts at keeping rooms ventilated. This is combined with heating that, whilst usually safe, is almost never efficient; I've never rented anywhere that included utilities and landlords have no vested interest in lowering your bills at their own cost. In winter, student houses are often pretty cold places to be. The walls are usually quite thin; hearing your neighbours party or have sex is all part of the student experience.

Whilst I've not had appalling landlords, most people who rent to students try to have as few outlays as possible; furniture is always cheap, frequently second hand and never matches. (I understand why this is - student throw parties and break stuff...) Getting things fixed can sometimes take a little while. Lots of shiny new schemes now stop horrible landlords running off with your deposit for no reason - not a problem for Martin, of course, because he's still there...

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2012-04-20 11:25 pm UTC (link)
Hiya, I've had two thoughts recently.
1.) Council Tax exempts student only accommodation, but with Martin in the house, it's clearly not. I am assuming that originally Martin was a student, the Landlord and Martin must have had a serious discussion about the Council Tax when Marti got a job. I think this ties in nicely with Martin doing the decorating and "mucking out".
2.) I lived in a house when I was a kid, where my Dad converted the attic. Admittedly we had a semi-detached 4 bed house, but this is how I imagine Martin's house being. Downstairs we had living room dining room kitchen and a small bathroom, second floor we had 2 large bedrooms and 2 tiny rooms and a family bathroom. When we ran out of space, Dad took a section from both the bigger rooms to make a small straight staircase, it twisted hard right after 15 steps, for a further 5 steps which emerged in the centre of the attic space.
This was my room, under the front eves of the house was my bed, I had a futon, on a rug, with a lamp and my books piled around me. In the centre opposite the stairs was my wardrobe, and under the back eves I had a desk which had a window my Dad put in above it (I think that was building regs).

My room was always a mess, but I had loads of stuff in it, and was fairly happy, I imagine Martin would be nice and comfy up there, and nicely separated from the students.

Carl @FittonATC

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] nejem.livejournal.com
2011-08-01 09:15 pm UTC (link)
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this, could be very useful for future fills!

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] viala-qilarre.livejournal.com
2011-08-02 09:05 pm UTC (link)
I wanted to Britpick the fics which had Martin climbing a ladder to his attic, as I KNEW it wasn't right - had never come across such an arrangement in a student house - but I didn't realise it was actually illegal, which makes sense. Attic bedroom to me conjured up the image of a pokey little garret next door to the water tank, but accessed up a narrow but fixed staircase. Victorian houses often have such rooms built into them ( ie not a conversion) as they were intended to be the maid's bedroom.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] lady-t-220.livejournal.com
2011-08-03 06:56 am UTC (link)
That depends a bit on the poshness of the Victorian hoiuse really, you had to be middle-class to have a maid. All the Victorian terraces round here were built for factory workers so they're 2up, 2down and the roofspace is just roofspace.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] viala-qilarre.livejournal.com
2011-08-03 08:39 am UTC (link)
I suppose I'm thinking of Oxford - where I was a student - which does have a lot of middle class Victorian houses owned by colleges and filled with students. It has working class terraces too and yes, they have attic conversions instead - although the one house of that nature I was most familiar with, the attic conversion was spacious and the best bedroom in the house! It all depends.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] sostrangechild.livejournal.com
2011-08-06 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Not being British (hello from the land down under!) would Eton be likely to have the middle class Victorian home conversions? Or do they have their own dorms? Or both? (Martin went to Eton, which is why I'm curious).

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-06 03:03 pm UTC (link)
O_O
Did he? What episode did he say that it?
Anon obviously needs to have another marathon (what a chore XD)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] sostrangechild.livejournal.com
2011-08-06 03:10 pm UTC (link)
"During my stint at Eton. Underlining bits in red!"
Teasing about Martin not knowing fictional aviators. Hm...episode...(I'm actually remembering the entire episode to remember which one it was...)
"Yes it is understood...sir."
I think it's Abu Dubai.
Unless I just mashed episodes together.
"And I am the Supreme Commander of this vessel!"

Yes. Definitely Abu Dubai.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-06 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Alright looked up transcript

Yes, all right, I've never heard of Captain Perkins. Happy now? You win again in the game of referencing fictional captains I don't recognize. But do you know, that's because instead of reading the adventures of Captain Perkings in my Punt At Eton college Oxford. I was re-reading Principles of Climatology for pilots and underlining bits in red. All right?

I think he was actually pointing out the differences between himself and Douglas (who did study at Eton or a school of similar calibre) which would mean he really, really isn't and former Etonian.

I hope you don't think I'm doing this to be a pain in the arse, apologies if I am being one. If it makes you feel better, I mixed up Wandsworth and Wokingham for months :)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-06 03:23 pm UTC (link)
Simultaneous anons are simultaneous. O_o

(This always happens to me, and, much like Martin, I'm always the later one by a few seconds...)

*hugs all around*

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3 - (Anonymous), 2011-08-06 03:26 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3 - (Anonymous), 2011-08-06 03:28 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] sostrangechild.livejournal.com
2011-08-06 03:36 pm UTC (link)
No, no, it's fine. :) Sarcasm kind of flies over my head sometimes. Well, a lot of the time. Humour can also zip past me. But you're right - I think Douglas was the one at Eton.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3 - (Anonymous), 2011-08-06 03:39 pm UTC (Expand)

Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-06 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Hm, what Martin says in "Abu Dhabi" is a whole sarcastic line which goes like this:

MARTIN: Yes, all right, I've never heard of Captain Perkins. Happy now? You win again in the game of referencing fictional captains I don't recognise. But do you know, that's because instead of reading The Adventures of Captain Perkins in my punt at Eton College, Oxford, I was re-reading Principles of Climatology for Pilots and underlining bits in red. All right?

Which I took to be sarcasm referring to Douglas - Douglas being the one who was reading the presumable Adventures of Captain Perkins in his punt at Eton College, Oxford.

I highly doubt Martin had the money for Eton, but maybe a Brit could inform us better.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread)  (Expand)


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


(Anonymous)
2011-08-06 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Well, Eton's a school despite the name, not really a 'College' per se, so it's a different set of circumstances. I'm fairly certain Eton have their own dormitories- if not within the school itself then within the school's grounds. Same with Harrow, the 'Houses' are on the school property. Most boarding schools have their own residences for the pupils because they're still minors and the school have guardianship so they have to be supervised.

The Agricultural College Martin mentions in 'Q' would be a Further Education or Higher Education college, so his house-share students are likely all 18+

Also, in relation to Martin's comment about Eton in Abu Dhabi- yeah, that was sarcasm from the Captain, there. His point being that he's accusing Douglas of whiling away his time reading Captain Perkins in a punt at Eton, while Martin was elsewhere actually working.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] sostrangechild.livejournal.com
2011-08-06 03:02 pm UTC (link)
Oooh, thank you! You've saved me from using the widow-maker in future stories! This is all really interesting, thank you for putting the time in to type it all up. ;)

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3


[identity profile] dayja.livejournal.com
2011-08-13 09:27 am UTC (link)
...now this is exactly what I needed, er, right around when this was posted but didn't see. Considering my fic that contains a ladder/staircase...thing (a sort of compromise in my head really, because I first thought ladder and then some tiny bit of forgotten trivia kept insisting staircase in the back of my head which forced me to invent a complicated half ladder, half staircase into Martin's room instead of the obvious or straightforward...well, since I'm too lazy to rewrite an entire chapter or two, I'll pretend it's barely legal by defining itself as a staircase while willfully suspending my own disbelief and hoping that my readers do the same. Thank you for the information.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3 (question)


(Anonymous)
2012-04-22 11:57 am UTC (link)
Hello! All this is awesomely helpful info, thank you!

Additional question: what happens to student share houses during summer break? I don't even know how long it is, not having been a British student, so - is the house left empty for a couple of months? Would the landlord try to fill it with short-term lets before the students come back?

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent)  (Thread) 


Re: Student Housing Info-dump Pt3 (question)


(Anonymous)
2012-04-22 12:36 pm UTC (link)
Student houses are often left empty over summer and landlords usually swoop in then to do any maintenance work or redecorating, but it's also quite common to find at least one student remains simply because they have a job locally or else don't really have aywhere else they can go. If the group sharing are all moving elsewhere then it'll stand empty till probably September time. If the current residents are returning then it'll be lived in on and off as people come and go through the holidays.

I've never really encountered short-term lets, most landlords like a solid year-long contract. If the students are coming back for the new term they're likely to leave most of their stuff in the house ready for when they get back. Most won't actively move out unless they're moving house completely.

In relation to Martin, he rather implied that the students he lives with are there for 3-year blocks so every 3rd summer he'd likely be the only person still there. The summers in between he might well see his housemates quite often, it depends on their circumstances.
Colleges and Universities usually start back in late September and early October respectively. It's been a while but I think they break for summer in July. But terms vary depending on the courses you take as they tend to stagger them slightly so you don't get everyone starting back on the same day.

(Reply to this)  (Thread from start)  (Parent) 


(Read 6312 comments) - (Post a new comment)
(Flat) (Top-level comments only)